SID i POKEY - Forum Atarum

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Vanilla 1.1.4 jest produktem Lussumo. Więcej informacji: Dokumentacja, Forum.

    • 1: CommentAuthorCyprian
    • CommentTime2 Nov 2022
    Can you post here that song again but with only one voice - that 'filtered' one (no drums, bass and other voices)?
    • 2: CommentAuthoremkay
    • CommentTime2 Nov 2022
    There is no filtered one voice.
    The filter is partially on all channels, except the one lead voice .
    • 3: CommentAuthoremkay
    • CommentTime3 Nov 2022
    Things are even more interesting, if you chose to stay with 4channels and put 2 channels for the main voices.
    The lower tone based voice can build some LFO on the higher voice to produce vibratos at some high resolution sound.
    You only have to assure to prevent the voices from cancelling.
    No problem there ;)

    • 4: CommentAuthoremkay
    • CommentTime3 Nov 2022
    Also... 4channels.

    The tune is build on LFO basses and filter high tones at 15kHz clocking.
    It doesn't sound clamped...

    • 5: CommentAuthormono
    • CommentTime5 Nov 2022 zmieniony
    Bywalcy Silly Venture pewnie rzecz znają, ale ja usłyszałem ten utwór dzisiaj po raz pierwszy. TO SĄ TYLKO DWA KANAŁY na Atari 2600 / Atari 7800!

    Niesamowite! BeWu mistrz!
    • 6: CommentAuthoremkay
    • CommentTime6 Nov 2022
    If you put most of the available CPU time into the tune, things might always sound more impressive.
    But it is not about digitizing.
    It's about the hardware features of the sound chip and simple programming to save CPU time. So it is possible to use a tune in any project.
    • 7: CommentAuthormono
    • CommentTime6 Nov 2022 zmieniony
    I have got impression that this is not digitized music in the opposite to the work taking 2nd place called "Future" and made by KK. I'm afraid the "Little 50" is pure chiptune.
    • 8: CommentAuthorCyprian
    • CommentTime6 Nov 2022 zmieniony
    @BeWu @mono zajebista piosenka

    @emkay it seems that's a pure 50hz song, therefore you can easily try to port that song to the POKEY.

    the matter is the arrangement, you can have a great song with only two channels like "Little 50" and not so good with 4 or more channels.

    Swoją drogą, ciekawe jest to że TIA ma bardziej mięsiste brzmienie niż POKEY
    • 9: CommentAuthoremkay
    • CommentTime6 Nov 2022 zmieniony

    The tune sounds washed out in video.
    Also, TIA has some real deep tones available.
    But the Drums sound faster updated, as some instruments have some quantization noise that occure if updates get faster.
    OK 60Hz is possibly used.

    Also interesting, you think that tune sounds great?
    It's actually like someone is moving a vinyl faster and slower with every step. Or like a cat is walking over eggs ;)
    • 10: CommentAuthoremkay
    • CommentTime6 Nov 2022 zmieniony
    On the other hand, if one has a look how advanced that TIAtracker is.

    At least VinsCool did some great addons to RMT.

    I wonder, if there will be a time when some POKEY tracker offers all tracker commands...
    Till then, I play around with RMT 1.31

    • 11: CommentAuthorCyprian
    • CommentTime6 Nov 2022 zmieniony


    But the Drums sound faster updated, as some instruments have some quantization noise that occure if updates get faster.
    OK 60Hz is possibly used.

    could be. There are a lot of 50hz, 60Hz or 200Hz tunes on the Atari XL / ST. And actually I don't care about that.


    Also interesting, you think that tune sounds great?

    I like that tune due to different reasons like - the composer skills (so many instruments on only two channels) and mentioned earlier arrangement.


    It's actually like someone is moving a vinyl faster and slower with every step. Or like a cat is walking over eggs ;)

    you've just discovered the essence of TIA/POKEY sound (yep POKEY is just a bit expanded TIA) - polynomial counters :)
    • 12: CommentAuthoremkay
    • CommentTime6 Nov 2022
    What is the point of your discussion?
    The relevant parts, you don't care about?

    You know that the SID basses were detuned aswell?
    That's why people always put the same style in.
    • 13: CommentAuthorCyprian
    • CommentTime6 Nov 2022 zmieniony
    @emkay you asked me, therefore I answered you.

    Actually SID or Paula is ok but I prefer Atari sound - Pokey and YM2149f.

    Regarding detuned bass: POKEY has 8bit (or 16bit for two chained channels), YM 12bit and 16bit (in case of a bass played on the Envelope) and SID 16bit for the frequency voice.

    The root of that detuned POKEY bass is just low 8bit frequency voice resolution.
    • 14: CommentAuthormono
    • CommentTime6 Nov 2022
    True. TIA has 5-bit for channel frequency so additional dividers (than standard /2) are implemented by distortions. They are: /6, /31 and /93 - this is a magic of fat bassess IMHO. But it's hard to compose music because of false notes being the result of narrow frequency divider register.
    • 15: CommentAuthoremkay
    • CommentTime6 Nov 2022 zmieniony
    The fault with SID's 16 bit is the frequency table plus the type of wave producing.
    The fault with POKEY's 8 bit polycounter basses is the available control of the sound types.
    POKEY isn't as detuned by frequency as you might think.
    The registers were depending on a clear divisor.
    Tone A5 is the double frequency as tone A4 ... as A3 ....A2...
    With SID you don't get exactly there.
    Depending on the frequency range, 2 octaves were usable without any trickery .
    Vice Versa , using 16 Bit gives a clear advantage for POKEY, as the amount of frequency steps reaches more frequencies inbetween. And particular the 16 bit basses were much more precise with POKEY.
    A bigger problem with POKEY is the 4 bit volume control.

    But, a lot tunes show that the limits per 8 bit channel weren't such a problem, while the 4 channels make the tune more lively.
    • 16: CommentAuthorCyprian
    • CommentTime6 Nov 2022 zmieniony


    POKEY isn't as detuned by frequency as you might think.

    That POKEY's out of tune is well known fact. I read about that (and tested vs other music instruments) more than 30 years ago. You can hear more about that:

    This 'out of tune' (besides the metallic sound) is the distinguishing feature of the POKEY. And actually I like that, thanks for that I know I hear POKEY music.


    while the 4 channels make the tune more lively.

    generally yes, better to have more voices: 3, 4 or 16 (like Apple IIgs - the best '80 music computer), but that tune "Little 50" just shows that two channels are not the limit
    • 17: CommentAuthorCyprian
    • CommentTime6 Nov 2022 zmieniony
    "Figure 1: Tuning inaccuracy of musical notes in cents using 8-bit dividers" from
    • 18: CommentAuthoremkay
    • CommentTime6 Nov 2022
    Why do you post 40 years old stuff?
    I wrote already the facts.
    I wrote also that only 2 octaves were usable on an 8 bit voice.

    And, I see why you like the "50" tune.
    The muffled sound and the 2channels offer some SID ambient.

    The point with POKEY is that all 4 channels always act interactive together.
    That's why it is possible to tune 2 voices to a correct pitch, while both channels play different tones.
    Not to tell about the hardware "PCM" filter setting that stretches 2 channel accuracy to 4 octaves.
    • 19: CommentAuthorCyprian
    • CommentTime6 Nov 2022 zmieniony
    @emkay ok, if you are sure then just post the video with a scale played by these two octaves. That would allow us to measure the outcome.


    And, I see why you like the "50" tune.
    The muffled sound and the 2channels offer some SID ambient.

    I like it because of what I mentioned earlier. For me it sounds as Pokey (because it is a Pokey) with boosted low band. And I can't hear there any similarities to SID. For me those chips sounds completely different.
    • 20: CommentAuthoremkay
    • CommentTime8 Nov 2022 zmieniony

    Hmm.... you posted the scale, showing the correctness inside the "10 cent" table , which shows note accuracy with some temperature . just like some Instrument is definded by it's temperature.
    The lower the tones, the more pitches inbetween exist to keep that from octave 2.5 to 4.5.
    And you compare that with the TIA tune that jumps into "the other note" ....
    The main fault in POKEY's 8 bit tuning was to set the low tones to a 432Hz base and the high tones tuned to 440Hz base.
    • 21: CommentAuthoremkay
    • CommentTime8 Nov 2022
    I wonder, if you guys really look at the videos and the facts behind them....

    Just for a reminder...
    RMT is not allowing to do pitch changes on the flow, while it is a standard method...

    • 22: CommentAuthoremkay
    • CommentTime10 Jan 2023
    I know, it's nothing special for SID to have programmed speech.
    But which other soundchip in 1979 was able to do so?

    • 23: CommentAuthoremkay
    • CommentTime10 Jan 2023
    This one is a little spooky to me.

    Youtube offers it to people with some special musical taste, not just chiptune.
    Just like a Rock Song is suggested to people who likes Rock songs.

    Also a funny fact: it plays a "SID tune" that is using a digital 4th channel ... playing on a single Pokey ;)
    Just at Pokey style ....
    • 24: CommentAuthoremkay
    • CommentTime27 Jan 2023
    One provokative Question:
    How many "superior" SIDs would be needed to resemble this tune?

    Keep the "reverb" in mind!
    • 25: CommentAuthoremkay
    • CommentTime16 Feb 2023
    Vocaloid tunes on SID?

    • 26:
    • CommentTime16 Feb 2023
    • 27: CommentAuthormlc
    • CommentTime17 Feb 2023 zmieniony
    Dla odmiany od ciężkich do słuchania kawałków Emkaya, nowy SID na 6 kanałach.

    • 28: CommentAuthoremkay
    • CommentTime18 Feb 2023
    Hmmm... fighting with the available software....
    But, at least it is something real... not some fake 6 channel SID ;=)

    • 29: CommentAuthorrosomak
    • CommentTime18 Feb 2023 zmieniony
    @mlc ten kawałek na dwóch sidach też dupy nie urywa
    Brzmi dokładnie tak jak większość kawałków SID, podobnie wygląda z grafiką na C64
    • 30: CommentAuthormlc
    • CommentTime18 Feb 2023
    to jeszcze trzy kawałki z nudnego SIDa

    • 31: CommentAuthorCyprian
    • CommentTime18 Feb 2023
    • 32: CommentAuthoremkay
    • CommentTime18 Feb 2023
    1. Could be interesting to hear the LMAN tune on a C64 from 1982.

    2. The 8580 is build into machines from 1986 and above.

    3. My POKEY demonstration were about the Chip itself, not about blasting the CPU.

    The "Androgit" sound like a clamped version of my "Deep Crap" edit.
    • 33: CommentAuthorrosomak
    • CommentTime18 Feb 2023
    @mlc chcesz powiedzieć, że to sam SID?
    • 34:
    • CommentTime18 Feb 2023
    @rosomak + sample w przeciwnym razie to musiałby być koniec świata ;D
    • 35: CommentAuthorrosomak
    • CommentTime19 Feb 2023
    @smector wiele kawałków SIDa używa wspomagaczy ale o tym najelpiej milczeć, SID bez wspomagaczy jest bardzo na jedno kopyto, jak muzyczki w grach z lat 80
    • 36: CommentAuthormlc
    • CommentTime19 Feb 2023
    jakie wspomagacze? Te trzy utwory słuchałem na swoim C64 i brzmią tak na standardowym sprzęcie.
    • 37:
    • CommentTime19 Feb 2023
    chodzi o generowanie danych do odtwarzania prockiem - jak rozumiem ten wątek jest o tym, co pokey i sid mogą z siebie wydobyć natywnie, bo jeśli dodamy procki, to na atarce już w latach 80. był softsynth i ciekawe dźwięki: ->link<-
    • 38: CommentAuthormono
    • CommentTime19 Feb 2023
    Tak. Bez sampli i syntezy dźwięku. WPP nawet Atari 2600 z TIA brzmi jak go KK zaprogramował ->link<- choć normalnie brzmi tak jak BeWu z JAC!iem chcą
    • 39: CommentAuthorbob_er
    • CommentTime19 Feb 2023
    @mic - a są jakieś kompozycje tylko na C128? On ma herzów ma dwa razy więcej i ciągle tego samego SIDa. Więc można mu więcej po rejestrach grzebać.
    • 40: CommentAuthoremkay
    • CommentTime21 Feb 2023
    Music like this uses about 1,5 % CPU on the Atari.

    We are still working on the optimization at low CPU needs ....

    Digitizing, using full CPU speed is a fully different approach.