Zmodyfikowany tryb GR9? - Forum Atarum

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    • 1:
    • CommentTime15 Mar 2010
    DearHorse zapytuje o taka rzecz:

    I see somewhere (but where ??? ;-) ) than a 2X8 pixels char mode in 16 shades (aka. GR.9) exists with little mod. and as I wish to include this char-mode in CHAR-Editor, I search references and docs. I see it in ATARIAGE some weeks ago but I dont re-found it... If you have any idea for help, let me know.

    Ja nie slyszalem o zmodyfikowanym GR9 i pewnie przegapilem wzmiankowany watek na AtariAge, ale moze ktos cos kojarzy, albo po prostu wie o jaka modyfikacje trybu GR9 chodzi?
    • 2:
    • CommentTime15 Mar 2010
    Skojarzyło mi się momentalnie z tym wątkiem: ->link<- (o ile to to)
    • 3: CommentAuthor0xF
    • CommentTime15 Mar 2010
    To zwykły tryb znakowy w GR. 9, taki jak po POKE 623,64. Co tu tłumaczyć?
    • 4:
    • CommentTime17 Mar 2010
    Jeszcze raz DearHorse:

    by changing register, allow to have 2X8 pixels chars with 16 shades, limited at 80X192 resolution, but
    seems interesting since by STA a single byte we will have 16 pixels block instead 2 single pixels.

    I remember few but the example I read was in ATARI-BASIC, poking 2 or 3 registers. So, not a vga x-mode register
    redefinition ;-)

    I search in my lunch time this day on ATARIAGE, but with no results.

    In 1983, I remember doing experiments by use a sort of this with PRINT #6,... after GR.9 setting, but char is drawing pixel by pixel with this method, definitively not a real char.
    • 5: CommentAuthorbob_er
    • CommentTime18 Mar 2010
    zeby uzywanie trybow gtia w graphics 0 mialo sens, trzeba zapodac odpowiedni zestaw znakow - taki, ktory jest przygotowany pod ten tryb, i pod to, co wlasciwie chcemy zrobic. z tym, ze napisow raczej nie uzyskasz w ten sposob - jeden znak to 2x8 - to za waskie jest na litery. ale ludziska uzywali tego w demach - wiekszosc ogni, plazm i innych wynalazkow z pikslem 8x8 (a wiec glownie dema przed asskickerem) to wlasnie tryb tekstowy z odpowiednimi fontami.
    I have used Graphics 0.9 (graphics 0 with GTIA set to 64) alot in my programming. I have actually written up a full documentation on GTIA settings in all the text modes (Graphics 1/2, 0, and 12/13) which I am attaching here.

    I have used these modes also in creating my ICE character flip font editor. Many of the GTIA vblank flip modes I use (APAC, HIP, Super 9) use Graphics 0.9, as does MIN 2 (Graphics 12/Graphics 0.9).
    • 7:
    • CommentTime5 Jan 2011
    DearHorse kontynuuje prace nad edytorami do grafiki Atari. Tutaj do trybow GTIA:


    To zapowiada sie niesamowicie, jako swietnie uzupelnienie G2F.

    This is nice.

    So can this be used to extract Graphics 11 color information from a JPG as well as Graphics 9, and then perhaps convert this to fonts? Or, could it be used to convert to the 9 palette Graphics 10 mode?

    If so, I think this utility could be used to help design text screens in some of my new modes, especially APAC 0, the HIP/CHIP modes, or the CIN/MIN/PCIN modes.

    For APAC 0, all I would need would be a Gr 9 and Gr 11 conversion of the picture and I can get font information for these.

    For the HIP and CHIP modes, I'd need a GR 10 conversion ... in the case of CHIP, it'd be a GR 10 monochrome version, altho I could do a program which converts GR 9 16 grayscale to GR 10 8 grayscale.

    For my CIN/MIN modes I'd also need a 5 grayscale (or 5 color) 160x192 bitmap. Combine it with a converted GR 11 (or 9) font set and you can get 160x192 picture in 80 colors. (or 60 colors if you want to use CIN 12/MIN 12 and maybe change your resolution to Antic 5).

    Another interesting possibility is maybe convert a JPG into both a 160x192 bitmap of 5 colors, and a Graphics 10 bitmap (80x192) of 9 colors, making sure 4 of these colors plus the background (registers 708-711 and background) match the 5 color bitmap. I can then use my PCIN mode (GR 10 + Antic 4) to display pictures: 160x192 x 35 colors. (34 if you use PCIN 12 and want to do an ANTIC 5 pic).

    One other idea: do a 2-color 320x192 bitmap (monochrome) and a 5 color 160x192 bitmap for a DIN mode (Antic 2-antic 4) 320x192 pic at 20 colors.

    Lots of ideas :)
    • 9:
    • CommentTime5 Jan 2011
    Synthpopalooza - I sent link to this topic to DearHorse.
    • 10: CommentAuthorDearHorse
    • CommentTime6 Jan 2011
    Hi all ,

    to respond to Synthpopalooza, in graphic routines I wrote, there was a big function (unfinished because lots of models) to take a picture from anywhere in system (rgb 32bit with alpha-channel) and split it into 2 separate pictures with computation to match a model 160x192X4C or GTIA specific mode or mix of. As ataritools-800 can take any picture 2C or 4C and put it in charset, the usage is either the same for graphics and text modes, even a mix of them. Once the algorithm will be finished, there is no mode limit to that application.

    The only complication is from atari color palette, after computation of palettes, the colors match the more closer "real" Atari colors are not always the sames or the "good ones" for eye. in the web site example with Grendizer-ufo robot, we see that even in 256 colors, the colors are not always good for eyes, especially in the red ones.
    The best match is in shading pictures of course.

    And don't talk about color variations between A8 computer models and PAL/NTSC...

    After holidays, I reopen ataritools-800 code to advance a lot. And theses special modes will come after the "normal" ones.


    • 11: CommentAuthorDearHorse
    • CommentTime6 Jan 2011
    I forget a part for Synthpopalooza :

    For conversions : With the soft we can take a graphic clipboard from anywhere on system,
    and in the clipboard part, there are tools to do some little work as : found the best 2,4 or 9 colors from the picture and possibility to force one or several to other values before conversion. For gr.9 just choose a color shading, for hues .. the result is time to time special ;-)

    After modifying the clipboard, a button is there to sent to charset or graphic-bloc tool (bitblt).

    The bloc works only if the mods are compatible with screen-model choosen previously.

    For best effects, dithering can be interesting but the best choice is to work with GIMP in parallel an do copy-paste between GIMP and ataritools-800.
    • 12:
    • CommentTime7 Jan 2011
    Sounds great Rudy! Can you publish beta version for testing? Alternativly, do you know when you will publish final version of AtariTool800?
    Interesting ... I think this could be very useful for me in doing text pictures in my new modes. One question, you mentioned converting a picture into 160x192x4 colors. Would it also be possible to add in the 5th color (Inverse) so as to make an ANTIC 4 screen? Of course it means making sure that the 5th and 4th color (both bit 11) are not in the same 8x8 block.

    This program sounds awesome and I can't wait to try it. Maybe we have some pictures in my new text modes by end of the year :)
    • 14:
    • CommentTime7 Jan 2011
    AtariTools rocks
    • 15: CommentAuthorDearHorse
    • CommentTime7 Jan 2011
    To Synthpopalooza : for the 5th color, by now, I don't use it because convertions of rgb pictures, using this "tricky" 5th color is not for use anywhere on screen :-/ and we get into intricated tests and conditions to use it, not talking animations. So perhaps in future, when basic functions of ataritools will be finished and fully debugged. In fact, ideal will be a folder for your special modes, we should talking deeper about this in future.

    For release, I can send the prg to any friend asking for it as beta release, but it will be frustrating if some part don't work correctly (ex: gr functions all operational but save button no..) and time to time it's clearely difficult with the large part of code opened and with debug flags on top of screens..)

    Anyway, I will do my best :-)

    best wishes,

    Dearhorse: Thanks ... I think for now, as long as I have some way of getting Atari bitmaps done from gif or jpg, at least in Graphics 15, Graphics 9, or Graphics 11, I have something to work from in regards to displaying pictures in my modes.

    I've already worked up a BASIC utility which will take an Atari bitmap (192 line modes like Gr.8, 9, 10, 11, 15) and convert these into font files which I can then use as part of my interlace text mode display.

    Also, I have Jeff Potter's APACView, which will grab Graphics 9 or 11 images off of any GIF file, which means I can already do APAC text displays. I can also use the Graphics 9 or 11 files alongside a Graphics 12 font file (which can be produced with G2F) to make displays in my Super CIN (Gr 12 monochrome + GR11) or Super Min (GR 12 color + GR 9) modes.

    I am also going to work up a BASIC utility to convert atari Graphics 9 or 11 bitmaps into Graphics 12.9 and 12.11 fonts (Graphics 12 with GTIA set). These allow fewer colors than normal Graphics 9 or 11 (14 colors as opposed to 16), but these can be used with my CIN 12 and MIN 12 modes, and will allow more lines to display in text mode, since it takes fewer VBLANK flips to display these modes. The trick is going to be the inversed colors, as these modes work like normal Graphics 12 ... inversing a character will change some colors but not others, and only 9 of the 14 can be accessed from either of the 2 palettes at one time. So some of the characters will be inversed, will require also an inverse map with each font file (which is I think what G2F does?).

    I'm writing a series of articles on these modes for Atari User, so when these are all finished, I may send you copies so you can read about them. I know this is all new territory. :)
    • 17: CommentAuthorDearHorse
    • CommentTime28 Jan 2011
    Hi, Synthpopalooza
    I don't if you received my mail a month earlier
    I was thinking that this guy (Synthpop) was involved into software-driven modes as much as my friend Bobby witch send me docs about his smart soft-driven modes...
    I just realized -late- that Synthpop IS Bobby !!!!! :)
    Damn'it ! I'm confused !
    Best wishes :-)