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1. • 1: CommentAuthorJosé Pereira
   • CommentTime22 Mar 2013 12:03 zmieniony

    
   Now I see. Never saw that.
   Clever thinking.
   Something like SuperIRG two charsets but here the two are GR.15+GR.12. And because the two share the same colours then there's no flicker (but then will not be flicker with GR.15 PF2 only sometimes are changed in some cells into PF3 in the other screen GR.12?).
2. • 2: CommentAuthorJosé Pereira
   • CommentTime22 Mar 2013 13:03 zmieniony

    
   O.k. so will be 'ANTIC4/GR.15 mixing'.
   That opens some new possibilities.
   
   
   Taked some minutes to get a proposal to see if you like:
   -> Exactly same BBC code like you're now.
   -> Added PF3 colour
   -> PRIOR4
   -> P0 and P1 double width covers the two side Borders
   -> P2 and P3 are still free to use on the Playing Area gfxs
   (here I have the two in each of the seats)
   -> All 4 Missiles aren't used (free to choose on something...)
   -> Bottom Panel has my idea of the guys that is still using two Players for the two Bars where they're overlap gets Multicolour on the 'VS.'.
   
   This way you get always different letters on the Panels (seems that Light Gray are in many of the screens levels so maybe good letters always use it).
   Mostly of the times the (11)on BBC are just the right one for our A8 PF2/PF3 with no clash.

   • atari0003.png
     
     
     
     
3. • 3:
      
     CommentAuthorjhusak
   • CommentTime22 Mar 2013 13:03

    
   I don't get it. There is only GR.12 line by line with font generators as memory (the opposite idea of charmode, when you get chars and change screen memory; here you have fixed screen memory and change ONLY char generators as raw bitmap, however with different layut)
   
   No flickering etcetering.
4. • 4: CommentAuthorJosé Pereira
   • CommentTime22 Mar 2013 13:03 zmieniony

    
   @Jakub here you're saying:
   "All you have to do is a short DLI which changes charset every two "char" lines."
   
   That is exactly what I am saying on my first posts.
   You are indeed IN and ONLY on charmode screen but you have the screen layout like:
   -> Charline1: Chars->39
   -> Charline2: Char40->79
   (others for soft sprites)
   
   So, from here aren't you need to cross multiple charsets when moving the guys?
   
   
   
   P.s.- Sorry, don't want to take so much of your time but wanna get it. And I am feeling that we are the two talking the same (although it work I still think that it's more cycles/CPU than the real/pure just 4colours Bitmap screen.
   Although the important is to have the best as we can .) ).
5. • 5: CommentAuthorwieczor
   • CommentTime22 Mar 2013 14:03

    

   José Pereira:

   So, from here aren't you need to cross multiple charsets when moving the guys?

   
   
   Yes, you do, but that multiple charsets' data can be stored one after another, so you just don't care to which charset you're writing data - you're just writing it to memory (that's interpreted by antic as subsequent charsets). Side effect is that now you don't have your screen memory like:
   
   line 0: pixels 0-3, pixels 4-7, pixels 8-11...
   line 1: pixels 160-163, pixels 164-167...
   line 3: pixels 320-323.... etc.
   
   but:
   
   line 0: pixels 0-3
   line 1: pixels 160-163
   line 2: pixels 320-323
   line 3: ...
   line 4: ...
   line 5: ...
   line 6: ...
   line 7: ...
   
   then
   line 0: pixels 4-7
   line 1: pixels 164-167
   line 2: pixels 324-327
   ....
   etc.
   
   So your screen memory is organized in blocks 4x8.
   
   Charsets data can go one after another, so you don't care when you're passing from one to another.
6. • 6:
      
     CommentAuthorDracon
   • CommentTime22 Mar 2013 14:03 zmieniony

    
   Wouldn't it be better if someone clever had prepared "Last Ninja Construction Kit" for José so that he would easily put his colored PMGs/DLIs onto the screen? ;)
   
   It looks like these uncommon code techniques (as above) are a bit hard for him (and for me - of course :)).
7. • 7: CommentAuthorJosé Pereira
   • CommentTime22 Mar 2013 14:03

    
   Yes. Didn't remember that. For soft sprites it's like one Byte: -> Charline1: A / Charline2: B / Charline3: C / ...
8. • 8: CommentAuthorJosé Pereira
   • CommentTime22 Mar 2013 15:03

    
   @Dracon: The technics I know but sometimes not native language mess a little bit. I was thinking in G2F way but it's the same although the consecutive chars numbers are in vertical and not in horizontal (and that's the way ANTIC put chars, in vertical, from what I read sometime ago).
9. • 9:
      
     CommentAuthorjhusak
   • CommentTime22 Mar 2013 15:03 zmieniony

    
   Just remember, you DO NOT TOUCH screen memory, only fontsets memory treated as screen memory.
   
   in other ways, if you had 2x1 chars display (8x8 pixels, each pixel of one of 4 colours), in graphics mode you have 16 consecutive bytes arranged like
   

   1 2
   3 4
   5 6
   7 8
   9 10
   11 12
   13 14
   15 16
   

   
   
   in graph-char mode:
   

   1 9
   2 10
   3 11
   4 12
   5 13
   6 14
   7 15
   8 16
   

   
   
   Still, are we talking about the same?
   
   

   wieczor:

   Charsets data can go one after another, so you don't care when you're passing from one to another.
   

   
   @wieczor, there is "overlap" problem. When you have narrow screen (32 bytes wide) you are perfectly right.
   
   However, if you have 40 bytes, you simply can not treat video memory like plain byte after byte, because antic cannot change active fontsets in the middle of charline, afaik it will finish the last one or strange things will happen.
   
   Instead, if you want to have equal addresses between lines, you have to expand each line to 64 bytes wide, and the last 24 bytes are spare (or 16) for something.
   
   We'll see, maybe I'll return to 3 charlines per one chargenerator. There must be changed only one procedure, which increments address from line to line.
10. • 10: CommentAuthorJosé Pereira
    • CommentTime22 Mar 2013 18:03

     
    O.K. I think I get what you're doing (not all but the most part). No need to take you more time because that's your part: the code.
    :)
    
    Here you have that screen with the SEATS.
    It's my final Proposal, I think.
    If we have the Borders in Black (I think you'd better put it as (02) because better not have the same as PF0 (00) inside. For my Eyes it's looking good).
    We will always have P2 and P3 for inside screen colouring (and on the bottom for the Energy Bars).
    From a quick view of Level one and the longplay video(s) at YouTube they seem enough.
    Most of the gfxs we will cover with these two Players, like Boxes, Curtains,... can go with those Players in double width 16pixels wide.
    What I still don't see is now where to put the 4Missiles... If they are the same colour as each Player they don't seem usefull anywhere. If they are in 5th Player taking PF3 colour it's again the same.
    
    
    
    One last thing that I just thought is that if:
    -> SIDE BORDERS are P0 and P1
    -> INSIDE are P2 and P3
    THEN
    -> IF guys sprites only two colours PF0 and PF1 then they will always overlap all gfxs, even if these has P2 and P3.
    This way we now can use PRIOR0 and have more colours on the (P2/P3) ORING (PF2/PF3).
    This last way seems the one to go if BBC only gfxs but would be 'The Must' if we get some of the C64 gfxs.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    But, by now just the PRIOR4 and my Proposal for the Master screen in PRIOR4:

    • MINE Black Borders and 5thcolour.zip
11. • 11:
       
      CommentAuthorjhusak
    • CommentTime22 Mar 2013 18:03

     
    Somehow not working on my three g2fonts (division by 0 :/). What version do you use?
12. • 12: CommentAuthorJosé Pereira
    • CommentTime22 Mar 2013 19:03

     
    This one was done with the last version downloaded from their own site.
13. • 13: CommentAuthorJosé Pereira
    • CommentTime22 Mar 2013 19:03

     
    This one was done with the last version downloaded from their own site.
14. • 14:
       
      CommentAuthorjhusak
    • CommentTime23 Mar 2013 11:03

     
    Ok, it was a reason for update :)
    The way I want to go is to give the clue and the algorithm should change the colour automatically; the easy way is to make underlay sprites. The sits do not match this attitude and I must think about it more.
15. • 15: CommentAuthorJosé Pereira
    • CommentTime23 Mar 2013 12:03 zmieniony

     
    @ Jakub: PMGs underlays:
    The way I see it is:
    FIRST: on each level we see which objects will use the underlays. From my tries, for level one:
    musical instrument, the small boxes (mostly used alone but sometimes as a base for the small trees), the seats, eachone of the two pillars on the Park wall on the opening gates, the rocks on the river, all the objects and weapons you have to pick-up and a couple, not much more...
    SECOND: PMGs data, width and colour for each object.
    (1st and 2nd only one time and for all the level)
    THIRD: for each screen you just load <data,width,colour> of the objects that are in there and place at (x,y)Position
    (P.s.- the seats on C64 are a little smaller... I started last night extracting all these gfxs that will use the PMGs and expect to send you them here (better looking in a mixing between the C64 and the BBC ones) by Monday).
16. • 16: CommentAuthorJosé Pereira
    • CommentTime25 Mar 2013 11:03

     
    O.k. I get the free-time at weekend to see what I would get from BBC gfxs turning better looking.
    The gfxs are exactly same cells/chars sized exactly like BBC/Electron.
    I started looking at C64 but quickly see that best doing them myself as it wasn't simple (maybee impossible to get the C64 Bitmap Multicolour in our 4+1colours).
    
    There was one big change: the park seats. This time they are a little bit smaller (that I take from C64, but just the idea because I even like more the BBC their appearance on BBC) but even smaller they are in the same places/cells on screen.
    I had to put them smaller because I wanted them to go with just one PM.
    I also thought better and change the Dark Orange/Redish PF1 into Pale Green (colour E) because it seems more universal for all the game (this one and not Brown because Brown wouldn't go well for walls (dark colour 14 gets a feeling of old rocks looking on Walls but also doesn't look bad for wood or even the guys face and hands)).
    
    The main/master screen is exactly like before with:
    -> P0 left Border/P1 right border
    -> PM2 and PM3 (more M0 and M1) for the Playing Area
    -> Bottom Panel use only P2 and P3 on the two guys Energy bars
    
    
    The real update was that I re-done some of the guys looking so that they doesn't have PF2 nor PF3 (if we are into char-mode they can't have (11) to not cause the clash issue).
    Their body/clothes Black and Brown (PF0 and PF1) good but need a third colour, at least for that guy with the jacket.
    I get it more the look of the one in LN1 C64 version with just some little pixels using (00) in case they go above some of the gfxs using PMGs underlays (like the seats). But seeing all the Level one and video(s) of all the others at youTube I think it's just in some, not much ocasions (and not much pixels overlap...).
    This way I can get all the underlays in Playing Area using PRIOR0 that is 'a Must' good looking!...
    
    
    The gfxs using underlays aren't much like I said on the previous post.
    I still think that we can have Data for each one and call it in each screen.
    The underlays are about, almost always, two times P2 and the same for P3 (M2 and M3 are only used if there's the seats).
    
    
    @JHusak: Hope you like and we can get something.
    I saw yesterday that you have an Account at AA so if you want me to send the Data of gfxs and PMGs and talking about it's better there because I can Upload lots of files per post easilly. Just P.M. me.
    
    
    Here it is some screens with different type of gfxs (only seems to miss here is the River but hadn't time.
    But you easy get the idea:

    • LN2 Level1 some screens.PNG
      
      
      
      
17. • 17:
       
      CommentAuthorAlex
    • CommentTime29 Mar 2013 17:03

     
    Temat zniknął z głównej i od razu cisza....
18. • 18: CommentAuthornodez
    • CommentTime29 Mar 2013 19:03 zmieniony

     
    tez jestem ciekaw czy cos sie dzieje w temacie ln2
    od 4ech dni ani widu ani slychu :/
19. • 19:
       
      CommentAuthorjhusak
    • CommentTime29 Mar 2013 21:03

     
    Hehe :) Dzieje się, w miarę możliwości.
20. • 20: CommentAuthorpin
    • CommentTime30 Mar 2013 01:03

     
    .. niech się dzieje w LN2 a nie na forum ;)
21. • 21: CommentAuthornodez
    • CommentTime30 Mar 2013 11:03

     
    tez fakt !
    :D
22. • 22:
       
      CommentAuthorAlex
    • CommentTime25 Apr 2013 11:04

     
    Jak tam progres? Any news? :)
23. • 23: CommentAuthortebe
    • CommentTime25 Apr 2013 12:04

     
    Jakub zmienia silnik na Unreal 4, "będzie kiedy będzie" ;)
24. • 24: CommentAuthorxxl
    • CommentTime25 Apr 2013 12:04

     
    na tym samym silniku jest PANG! ?
25. • 25:
       
      CommentAuthorjhusak
    • CommentTime25 Apr 2013 17:04 zmieniony

     
    [####################------------------------]
26. • 26:
       
      CommentAuthorpirx
    • CommentTime30 Apr 2014 09:04

     
    Hej! Daj nowy progress bar :)
27. • 27:
       
      CommentAuthortdc
    • CommentTime30 Apr 2014 10:04

     
    Na razie nie daje, bo progres jest mniejszy niż rozdzielczość znaków :P
28. • 28:
       
      CommentAuthorjhusak
    • CommentTime30 Apr 2014 15:04

     
    :D
29. • 29: CommentAuthornodez
    • CommentTime30 Apr 2014 21:04

     
    ?:)
30. • 30: CommentAuthorwieczor
    • CommentTime30 Apr 2014 22:04 zmieniony

     
    Można zwiększyć rozdzielczość czterokrotnie :)
    0 -
    1 .
    2 |
    3 +
    4 #
31. • 31: CommentAuthoras...
    • CommentTime30 Apr 2014 22:04

     
    zaraz będzie tryb "Konop-a"
32. • 32:
       
      CommentAuthorxeen
    • CommentTime21 Aug 2014 23:08 zmieniony

     
    I jak tam prace? Do przodu? ;)
    Coś mam ochotę zagrać w TLN
33. • 33:
       
      CommentAuthorjhusak
    • CommentTime22 Aug 2014 01:08

     
    Jest na słynnym etapie "co by tu jeszcze".
34. • 34: CommentAuthorwieczor
    • CommentTime22 Aug 2014 05:08

     
    @xeen: kup sobie commodore :)
    
    @jhusak: jak to co? dopracować i domknąć :) 1.5 godziny z przerwą na kawę :)
35. • 35:
       
      CommentAuthormiker
    • CommentTime22 Aug 2014 07:08

     
    wieczór, idź pobiegać, za dużo tu ciebie... :P
36. • 36: CommentAuthorAdam
    • CommentTime22 Aug 2014 08:08 zmieniony

     

    jhusak:

    Jest na słynnym etapie "co by tu jeszcze".

    
    
    Czyżbyś miał na myśli etap z Młynarskiego: "co by tu jeszcze spieprzyć panowie, co by tu jeszcze"? ;)
37. • 37:
       
      CommentAuthoradv
    • CommentTime22 Aug 2014 10:08

     
    "Przyjdzie walec i wyrówna"
38. • 38:
       
      CommentAuthorjhusak
    • CommentTime22 Aug 2014 11:08 zmieniony

     
    Tu chyba sprawdziło by się podejście:
    - zrobić jak oryginał
    - (za jakiś czas zrobić poprawki.)*
39. • 39: CommentAuthorAdam
    • CommentTime22 Aug 2014 13:08

     
    Ale chyba od początku planowałeś zrobienie "czegoś więcej"? Gdyby było inaczej, to podejrzewam, że zrobiłbyś wersję 1:1 tak z rozpędu, bo przez pierwsze tygodnie postępy były ogromne :)
40. • 40:
       
      CommentAuthorjhusak
    • CommentTime22 Aug 2014 14:08 zmieniony

     
    Nie planowałem, może z wyjątkiem muzyki.
    Ale apetyt rośnie w miarę jedzenia. Podsycany przez innych rósł szybciej. No i jak to zwykle bywa, trzeba się ograniczać. Najlepiej do podstaw z minimalnymi poprawkami.
    
    Czyli:
    4-5 kolorów, bez muzyki.
    
    :D
41. • 41:
       
      CommentAuthorpirx
    • CommentTime22 Aug 2014 14:08

     
    oj tam, wstaw 4'33" Cage'a i będzie muzyka.
42. • 42: CommentAuthorAdam
    • CommentTime22 Aug 2014 14:08

     

    jhusak:

    Czyli:
    4-5 kolorów, bez muzyki.

    
    
    Zaraz, zaraz:
    
    Jak to "4-5 kolorów" - na całym ekranie? Nie zrobisz nawet żadnego prostego podkolorowania dolnego albo bocznego panelu, np. podobnie jak to zrobił Fandal w Perplexity?
    
    Jak to "bez muzyki"? Miker w tym właśnie wątku 13 marca 2013 napisał, że przesłał Ci muzyczkę do Last Ninja i że możesz ją jeszcze poprawić. Nie nadaje się? Za dużo do poprawiania? ;)
43. • 43: CommentAuthorpin
    • CommentTime22 Aug 2014 22:08

     
    ... bo ja już rozkminiam nad Last Ninja pod emulatorem ZX na Atari ;)- Rapidus daje rady ;). Właśnie oglądam dema z 48, gram w gry ... no i nie wierzę w to, co widzę ;)
44. • 44: CommentAuthorxxl
    • CommentTime22 Aug 2014 23:08

     
    nie na atari tylko na rapidusie :D
45. • 45: CommentAuthorpin
    • CommentTime22 Aug 2014 23:08

     
    ... no i z tym emulatorem, to bajka. Zero kompromisów made by XXL ;)- Interface: commander, wybieram snapszot, klik w return, 3 sekundy mam emulator z zawartością, mogę zrobić zrzut do pliku, mogę pograć, jeden klawisz, 2 sekundy mam commandera, wybieram inny plik, return, 3 sekundy inna gra, demo, cokolwiek. Miłe dla oka, motywuje, cieszy ;)
    
    Config raczej dowalony do maxa, ale w tym wydaniu to konieczność. 65c816 20mhz, VBXE, Evie (sound):
    
    
46. • 46: CommentAuthorpin
    • CommentTime22 Aug 2014 23:08

     
    @XXL - wiesz, jak brzmi beeper na emulatorze i na Rapidusie? - żałuj, pewnie usłyszysz na którymś tam party ;) - warto ;)
47. • 47: CommentAuthorxxl
    • CommentTime22 Aug 2014 23:08

     
    chyba wiem, juz przy 16mhz mozna generowac muzyke gdzie nie bedziesz w stanie uslyszec roznicy miedzy beeperem a np. dzwiekiem z amigi.
    
    szkoda ze atari tak nie moze :-)
48. • 48: CommentAuthorpin
    • CommentTime23 Aug 2014 00:08

     
    wiesz, tyle że to nie tylko muzyka. To kompletny emulator jest. Na dodatek, dość sprawnie to działa co jest jak dla mnie mimo wszystko dość sporym zaskoczeniem. I to nadal jest Atari, cokolwiek sobie tam nie powiesz ;)
49. • 49: CommentAuthorpin
    • CommentTime23 Aug 2014 00:08

     
    właśnie słucham kolejnej kolekcji muzaków na beepera. Wygoda użycia emu - rewelacja. Każdy program wraca do systemu, zero czekania, wszystko dostępne w max 2-3s, wszystko działa ;) Czekałem na to 30 lat ;)
50. • 50: CommentAuthorxxl
    • CommentTime23 Aug 2014 00:08

     
    atari robi za modul zasilania?