Jacques - wąptliwe, że bezapelacyjnie. Polecam zapis z ostatniego KWAS-a i posłuchać pewnego posiadacza C64, który współcześnie woli Atari - i w sumie tak argumentował za Atari, że nawet Mono i TDC poczuli się w obowiązku ukazać mu zalety C64 :)
Mój osobisty pogląd jest odmienny od Twojego - nie ma czegoś takiego jak "najlepszy" komputer. To zależy od zbyt wielu czynników, dlatego każdy może mieć najlepszy do swoich potrzeb, upodobań. Dla jednego paleta 16 kolorów jest dyskwalifikująca, dla innego w ogóle nie ma znaczenia liczba kolorów. Gdyby chodziło bowiem jedynie o liczbę kolorów to Sam Copue ma więcej. I co z tego?
Dobra, użyłem skrótu myślowego... Gdyby C64 miało paletę jak nasza, pewnie byłoby uznane za 8-bitowca najbardziej zaawansowanego audiowizualnie, o. Sama Coupe czy CPC+/GX pomijam, bo to tak naprawdę 8-bitowa musztarda po obiedzie powstała w czasach Amigi i ST.
A Atari i tak jest najlepsze, używa się go tak jakoś lekko, C64 czy CPC są jakieś toporne w użyciu innym niż gry.
@ Jacques jeszcze procek ;) @Kaz jak nie ma jak jest ! dam ci numer do mojego fumfla Kim Dzong Una z nim podyskutuj :). Tak na marginesie to design też ma the best,ładniejszego ośmiobitowca nie ma i to nawet nie rzecz gustu a estetyka wykonania.
Yes. The available colors for the Atari always did cut the 16 colors of the C64, even if the C64 was able to show a better color resolution. But what is it worth, if Atari Users/Coders don't use the colors just because they don't like the result? Particular Prince of Persia could look like the Apple 2 Version with a lot of color and lightning FX. But they prefer the C64 style, that now luckily changed to the BBC Micro style that allows to do some P.o.P. game that looks like "inbetween".
Ralph Demolka super,był film dla młodzieży który obejrzałem w imię zasady ze o grach :D a gry brakowało ,ciekawe jak zdobyli prawa ;),reszta to fioletowo-biszkoptowy kibel,no coś tam niby jest,ale nic co by rzucało Atariana na kolana.
Jest tam jedna niezła gra - Old Tower. Grywałem w coś podobnego na iPhone, a wersja na C64 jest niegorzej zrobiona (!) Na Atari chyba nie ma żadnych konwersji współczesnych gier?
One great Ego-Shooter (1st person) for the Atari would offer more than thousands of those endless boring "hey let's move some nice shaped sprites" on the C64 .
rbej1977 Not sure what you mean with "fanboy". But you have to be a C64 fanboy anyways if you do a happy jump for the next "weird color" with muffled sound variation. Most simple Sprite games on the C64 showed that the 1MHz CPU was to slow to bring the real thing in.
In 1986 the MSX 2 had appeared , and it made the C64 look like a real Bread-Bin .
Even the first MSX has been able to play real tuned MUSIC. SID is also slightly off, particular in the lower notes. MSX 1 lacked in Hardwarescolling and development was rather quick there, resulting in the breathtaking MSX2 . The problem was that MSX wasn't accepted in Europe back then. Playing really Arcade at home wasn't wanted.
So to me it is only interesting what computers could do before that time. C64 was "original" in 1982 and then changed by the years.
Any great game on the Atari just points to what was possible when the knowledge of programming had been there back then. That's the challenge.
What I still am about is that even the lots of sprites on the C64 don't help with the limited CPU.
One last example:
Real Graphics on the MSX2 while the sound uses enhancements.
I wonder what happened , if people had been such enthusiasts on that machine, as they were on the C64.
And back to the Atari. To say that the Atari's CPU is too slow for 3D games has already proven to be not true. But Turrican 2 is already so much more playable on the Amiga, just because the CPU acts 100% to the player controls. But people claim the T2 Version on the C64 is better ;)
Msx2? This was released after Atari ST and Amiga. And not hardware but software making computers great. How Turrican looks on Atari XL? There is not Turrican on XL, same as many other great games.
mlc MSX2 has been released in 1985. ST .... 1985 Amiga ... 1985 ;)
OK. The MSX information base is like some wishwash, so it could be 1986.
Also, the point of my argumentation is exactly what your question was not ;) Ofcourse there is no Turrican 2 on the A8. Simply because there is some hardware missing. The C64 has the sprites, so such games work fine on the C64. As I wrote a gazillion times before ;) ... the Atari has the strength in ego view 3D presentation. It even was built for that with the standards of the late 70s. Using the hardware-features of the Atari the best way for 3D presentation is still not done. And that ist just because people still try to adapt C64 games to the Atari.
Crrn - spoko. W komentarzu pod artkiem to pochwaliłem, a dopiero potem przyszło mi pytanie do głowy, a że nie chciałem serwować jednego swojego komentarza pod drugim :D
grafy fajne, ale tecza slaba - 16 a 128 kolorow robi jednak roznice. Podoba mi sie podejscie comodorowcow, ze nie przejmuja sie ograniczeniami sprzetu tylko robia swoje, szkoda ze na atari nie ma takiego podejscia...
Koledzy z zaprzyjaźnionej platformy czekają na "A Pig Quest":
Muzycznie zapowiada się pięknie, ale za tą warstwę odpowiada Gaetano Chiummo znany z eksperymentów z 3 SID-ami na pokładzie. Graficznie zresztą też nieźle...
That game is doable on the Atari, as shown in the video. Less colors per scanline given.
But the sprites are tiny , and there is no scrolling. Well, there is some background "action" happening. But, every moving object without the need of handling collisions, don't really eat up much CPU time. Antic 4 should not be a problem.
@emkay: They're standard C64 sprities 12x21 multicolor pixels. Software sprities need to be implemented as 4x4 characters matrix in ANTIC 4 mode. That gives us 128 bytes to update what takes about 4K cycles per sprite (with hardware sprite placement to take additional color) so I estimate we could achieve about one movement per 2, maybe 3, video frames for emulation of 8 C64 sprities by software (with collisions handling, music, screen movement and some logic).
By the way :) I saw "Abbayes des Morts" thread on AtariAge (I took "A Pig Quest" link from this thread) and I think that your recomendation about using hires coloured up by hardware sprities using one hue and different luminances looks very interesting and it's very good idea. Many days ago Bob_er demonstrated the same aproach in one of M.E.C. demo ("Unfused" demo effect: ->link<- ). I think it's the best we can do on hires games to make them more atractive.
Edit: Protovision has "Limbo" in development that uses the same aproach to make visual layer: ->link<- . I found it fresh and nice.
We have seen that the Atari can handle 6 colorful moving objects on a multi parallax scrolling ANTIC 4 screen. If no hardware scrolling is used, they easily can be used as real software sprites.
The "Rain" and other "active" graphics are just moving objects without any need for "sprite" calculation.
@ bocianu przebija to co w filmiku na YT Limbo Commodorowskiego,nie mogę ci napisać kiedy gdyż sam nie wiem :).Strasznie statyczne to Limbo z Commodore.
Jak już wchodzimy na tak wysoki poziom epickości, to można by zrobić grę atari vs commodore. Wystarczy w jakiś już istniejących warcabach przerobić grafikę, pionki na symbole atari i commodore, a damki to st i amiga. Ja bym sobię zagrał. Ktoś chętny do implementacji ?
About Limbo. I think the C64 "background" is horrible "overpixeled".
On the Atari, well I did some mockup...
Imagine the screen in hires at 32 bytes width. The PMg is done using some dlis... acting as some parallax moving background Also, the eyes of our protagonist can be one player as an underlay.
The gfx (the trees at the roadside, the cars) look superb.
Alas, the gameplay is quite repetitive and not like a racing game in my eyes. Its more a test of your reflexes how fast you can react and avoid other cars - similar to some already available A8 games from the 80s with much simpler gfx (e.g. the driving sequence in Fire Chief or Death Race and some other games).
Besides, its much too slow for a german autobahn (you have to drive with 160 to 200 km/h there or many others will overtake you, because you are too slow.) ;-)
Całkiem przyjemnie kolorowe to jak na c64, świetny realizm drogi, samochody jakby przód się im podnosił przy zbliżeniu, drzewa ... bez komentarza Muzyczka trochę meczu ale rozgrywka całkiem fajna, kiedy na A8?
